E355: From 9/11 to Special Ops: Flying Secret Missions
Most pilots dream of smooth 10,000-foot runways.
Tyler Flagg trained to land a 30,000-pound aircraft on a 25-foot dirt strip… in total darkness.
After 9/11 changed his life trajectory, Tyler went from zero aviation background to flying Special Operations missions around the globe. With minimal information and maximum responsibility, he deployed into multiple combat theaters — moving elite teams into places most people will never see on a map.
In this episode:
- The unconventional path into Air Force Special Ops
- What it feels like to deploy with barely 250 flight hours
- Flying through Saharan fuel-risk zones and Pacific icing
- The culture differences inside military aviation
- Why humility matters more than ego in elite units
- Building a company after walking away from a “dream job”
This one is raw, honest, and packed with perspective.
Sign up today The Flying Company
Transcript
Episode 355 of the pilot the Pilot
Speaker B:Podcast takes off now.
Speaker A:The Pilot to Pilot podcast is brought to you by Ground School from the Finer Points, the indispensable training app for new and experienced pilots.
Speaker A:Visit learnthefinerpoints.com Justin to save 10% off your first year, fly with Garmin Avionics.
Speaker A:Then grab your mobile device and make the Garmin Pilot app your cockpit companion.
Speaker A:Get advanced functions you'll use before, during and after every flight, including updating your aircraft's databases and logging engine data plan file.
Speaker A:Fly log with Garmin Pilot all pilots need the big weather picture and I use Sirius XM Aviation to check the fronts, airmets, segments, turbulence, pireps and more while I'm pre flighting and in route.
Speaker A:All to give my passengers and me the most comfortable flight possible.
Speaker A:And now with the latest offer from SiriusXM, there's never been a better time to upgrade your next flight with the Garmin GDL50 portable receiver to bring Sirius XM and ADS B weather plus traffic into your cockpit.
Speaker A:Hey, it's Justin.
Speaker B:Quick question for you.
Speaker A:Is your portfolio built to handle market swings?
Speaker A:Because the thing is volatility doesn't care about your retirement date.
Speaker A:Alt worst planning experts are hosting an exclusive webinar breaking down the strategies that are working right now from smarter diversification and downside protection to tax smart moves and liquidity planning.
Speaker A:And it's designed for investors like you.
Speaker A:If you've built significant wealth and want to stay ahead of the market shifts, this is time well spent.
Speaker C:Check it out@allworth airline.com justin my name is Tyler Flagg.
Speaker C:I'm the the founder and CEO of Flying company.
Speaker C:I was a special operations pilot in the Air force for about 14 years before moving into corporate aviation where I was the chief pilot for a PC24 and that's kind of where I started building this company AV Nation.
Speaker B:What is going on?
Speaker B:And welcome back to the Pilot to Pilot podcast.
Speaker B:My name is Justin Seams and I am your host.
Speaker B:This intro will be short because I am just cannot get over this cold that I have been stuck with for the past week.
Speaker B:But we're talking with Tyler Flagg.
Speaker B:Tyler Flagg flew special ops in the Air Force.
Speaker B:He flew a Dornier.
Speaker B:Never talked to anyone that's done that so it was crazy fascinating to hear about his experience one how he got into aviation just kind of by a recruiter or not recruiter but someone telling like hey your grade's really good, you should be a pilot.
Speaker B:He's like oh okay, cool, I'll do that.
Speaker B:But it was really cool.
Speaker B:Talk with him how he transitioned from the military to being a chief pilot for a PC24 and eventually stepped away from that job to start the flying company, which is a pretty cool concept.
Speaker B:And if you are are an owner operator, you look for pilots.
Speaker B:Or if you're a pilot that is on the contract side, you should definitely check them out.
Speaker B:So I hope you enjoy this episode.
Speaker A:And without any further ado, here's Tyler
Speaker B:Flag from the flying company.
Speaker B:Tyler, what's going on, man?
Speaker B:Welcome to the pilot to Pilot podcast.
Speaker C:Hey, man, great to.
Speaker C:Great to get to do this.
Speaker B:Yeah, we have a mutual connection, right?
Speaker B:Trevor doesn't all dreams.
Speaker B:I haven't talked to him in forever.
Speaker B:He randomly reached out to me.
Speaker B:Last time I talked to him is when I got the job at my current airline.
Speaker B:He's like, dude, congrats man.
Speaker B:Welcome to the team.
Speaker B:And he reminded me that he is senior than me and that his life.
Speaker B:I was like, thanks, dude, Appreciate it.
Speaker B:Classic.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's like, hey, dude, you gotta have Tyler on.
Speaker B:He's building something cool.
Speaker B:He's got cool stories.
Speaker B:I highly recommend.
Speaker B:I was like, all right, dude, let's do it.
Speaker B:Let's make it happen.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's a great dude.
Speaker C:We go back really long time and, you know, we met freshman year of college.
Speaker C:You know, we were both in ROTC but in different programs, ended up meeting during, you know, what is effectively like Air Force summer camp, where, you know, they let you like go to a base and just, you know, pretend to be in the real military for.
Speaker C:For a month and got to know him and we've been best friends ever since.
Speaker C:And now we live in the same town and raise the kids together and everything like that.
Speaker C:We took very, very different directions, you know, in the, in the military.
Speaker C:He was the pointy nose fighter guy, you know, on the bird pilot, and I was the civilian clothes wearing special operations guy.
Speaker C:And very.
Speaker C:It was, it was always fun kind of catching up from time to time because we never, you know, were based in the same place or anything like that, but it was always just kind of funny to see the differences in the.
Speaker C:In the two worlds that we lived in.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is funny how you can be based on the same place.
Speaker B:You both can be aviators and you can have completely different lives, completely different missions.
Speaker B:But I'm sure it just makes the stories that much better, right?
Speaker B:I'm sure you meet up, you're like, dude, what'd you do today?
Speaker B:It's like, ho.
Speaker B:Ho, you don't want to miss this one.
Speaker B:Also, make sure your phones are off and sign this NDA because I'm not
Speaker C:supposed to tell you.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, no, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker C:I also got to be be on his plane when he did a affinity flight in the T38, you know, many, many years ago.
Speaker C:And this is a lot of fun.
Speaker C:Finally got to actually fly with the guy.
Speaker C:So then you got to fly with me in the PC24 once, which was fun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:PC24, what?
Speaker B:What a plane.
Speaker B: about: Speaker B:It was a lot of fun.
Speaker B:I never got to fly PC24.
Speaker B:I think it was just coming out when I was transitioning from my freight job and didn't really want to stay to fly.
Speaker B:I would rather go do some other things and did that.
Speaker B:But it looks like a great plane.
Speaker B:So Pilatus is always making cool stuff.
Speaker C:Oh yeah, no, it was awesome.
Speaker C:And you know, I've got a couple hours in the PC12 probably.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But like it's a very easy transition for someone who was flying an NG or an NGX to be able to move into the end of the 24.
Speaker C:And I mean that's essentially why they, they built it.
Speaker C:It's kind of funny and I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this, but I've heard from folks at Pilatus where, you know, essentially like the owner operator community flying the PC12 like just kept pestering them for years like, hey, can you build a twin engine jet that we can move into?
Speaker C:And they finally were just like, o okay, fine, yeah, we'll do it.
Speaker C:You know, but it's awesome.
Speaker C:I mean it's same like Honeywell, you know, system.
Speaker C:You just got two zoomies instead of one.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah, it's pretty intuitive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean needs to be Garmin.
Speaker B:That's the only mistake they made.
Speaker B:It has to be.
Speaker B:We're in the brand right here.
Speaker B:They made the mistake.
Speaker C:I think the.
Speaker C:I think, I don't know, like, isn't the new, the new PC12 going to be Garmin?
Speaker B:And then the probably speculate.
Speaker B:I will have to wait until that is all settled and figured.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker C:When I heard announcements.
Speaker C:So somebody, somebody fact checked that to the point.
Speaker B:Jets are kind of like the natural evolution, right?
Speaker B:I mean serious kind of went through this with.
Speaker B:They had the SR20, the SR22 and their owners, as they grow up, they get kind of just engulfed in that brand and they just want to see what's next.
Speaker B:Maybe they don't want to go buy something else.
Speaker B:Textron Aviation had this down pat, right?
Speaker B:They have the.
Speaker B:You start in 150.
Speaker B:All right, cool.
Speaker B:Now you go to a 172.
Speaker B:Now you go to 182, 206, 210.
Speaker B:You know, we have, like, every make and model you could ever want, and these other companies just had one or had two, and they didn't have that.
Speaker B:Jet and texture on aviation dominates the.
Speaker B:The light jet market.
Speaker B:And for someone else to come in and bring some competition, it's good for everyone, I think.
Speaker C:100.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, let's talk about you, man.
Speaker B:Let's talk about why you wanted to become a pilot.
Speaker B:We'll kind of get into, like, did you always want to be a special ops pilot?
Speaker B:But what was the original.
Speaker B:Why does Tyler want to become a pilot?
Speaker C:Well, man, I. I have a rather unconventional story, I think, and I do kind of feel bad talking about it sometimes, just because I know that there's a lot of people who grow up wanting to be pilots, and it just never works out for him, you know, And I just kind of fell into it.
Speaker C:So, you know, I grew up right outside of Manhattan in Jersey City.
Speaker C:New Jersey.
Speaker C:Did not come from a military family or an aviation family.
Speaker C:My parents were actors, so they met doing, you know, theater.
Speaker C:My.
Speaker C:My dad was on Broadway and off Broadway in supporting roles his.
Speaker C:His whole career, and then just kind of picked up odd jobs and stuff like that when.
Speaker C:When he wasn't in a show.
Speaker C:And so that was, like, the world that I was, you know, raised in.
Speaker C:Like, I was backstage, like, playing Seg Genesis with the stage hands and stuff like that when my dad was doing a show.
Speaker C:And I did, like, a little, you know, child acting when I was a kid.
Speaker C:I was a failed.
Speaker C:Failed child actor.
Speaker B:No way, really.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But then, you know, just had other jobs in.
Speaker C:In New York City and, you know, worked in retail and, you know, was a lifeguard and stuff like that, like, normal kind of kid jobs.
Speaker C:But, you know, I was a sophomore in high school when September 11th happened, and, you know, it was just a stone's throw away from there.
Speaker C:Used to be able to see the towers, you know, when I was going to school every morning.
Speaker C:And so it was a, you know, significant event, obviously, for, you know, everyone and, you know, especially, you know, a sophomore in high school.
Speaker C:And so I kind of decided, you know, right then and there that I was going to join the military.
Speaker C:I wanted to enlist in the Marines.
Speaker C:My mom very Politely asked if I could, you know, go in as an officer and go to college.
Speaker C:And so put in my applications to West Point, you know, which is the, you know, US Military, you know, Army's academy up in upstate New York.
Speaker C:And then at the time, I don't know if it's changed.
Speaker C:You know, whoever's going through this process now knows better than I do.
Speaker C:But at the time, you could just kind of like, check an extra box on the application and then, you know, send it to a different academy.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I ended up sending it to the Air Force Academy as well.
Speaker C:You know, both of the colleges got back to me and were just like, well, you're not smart enough to go to our schools.
Speaker C:But the Air Force kind of had me, you know, high enough on the waiting list that they gave me a scholarship to go do our rotc.
Speaker C:And so ended up, you know, going to a small school in New Jersey, did rotc.
Speaker C:I was a political science major, you know, so, like, I just kind of went in with, like, hey, needs the Air Force, right?
Speaker C:You guys tell me, like, where you want me?
Speaker C:And I assumed that they were gonna have me be an intel officer or something like that.
Speaker C:And then one day, gosh, I think it's probably like, beginning of junior year or something like that is when you kind of have to make that decision.
Speaker C:Like the.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:One of the staff sergeants who worked at the detachment was just like, hey, Cadet flag, are you going to put your name in for a pilot slot?
Speaker C:Said, no.
Speaker C:And she's like, well, if you do, you're gonna get it.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, all right, that seems cool.
Speaker C:Let's give that a shot.
Speaker C:You know, I probably thought about it for a lot shorter than I really should given the, you know, the monumental decision that I was making at the time.
Speaker C:But it was all kind of based off of your gpa, your commander's ranking, you know, physical fitness scores, how well you did during field training, which is like the, you know, boot camp light that.
Speaker C:That they have the Air Force, you know, officers go through, and.
Speaker C:And yeah, so I ended up getting a pilot slot.
Speaker C:You know, pretty.
Speaker C:I was pretty excited.
Speaker C:Didn't really know anything about it, Right.
Speaker C:And then the next thing was you had to choose what base you were going to go to.
Speaker C:And again, not knowing really what I was doing, I was given a list of, you know, five bases, and I looked at it, and it was just like, all right, well, this one's in Oklahoma, this one's in Mississippi, this one's in Texas.
Speaker C:And then there's Pensacola, Florida.
Speaker C:And I was like, well, is this a trick question or something?
Speaker C:Like, I mean, obviously I'm going to choose that one now.
Speaker C:Little did I know that I was going to be training with Navy and flying the T34, which is the, you know, built in the 60s, you know, used as the, you know, the trainer for, for Navy and Coast Guard and Marines.
Speaker C:And I wouldn't be flying the same thing that all my other, you know, Air Force, you know, you know, friends were gonna be flying in the T6.
Speaker C:But yeah, no, spent.
Speaker C:Spent a couple years down in Pensacola flying with the, the Navy.
Speaker C:Had a great experience, loved being down there.
Speaker C:And then, you know, went and tracked for.
Speaker C:For T1s, which is like the, you know, the trainer that you go to, to go heavy and, and special operations and stuff like that and did that.
Speaker C:And then at the very end, you know, you get your drop list with all the different, you know, things that were available at the time.
Speaker C:You know, all your standard, like, hey, C17 here, C130 here, you know, KC10 here.
Speaker C:And then there was this one little thing like down at the bottom that said non standard aviation.
Speaker C:And that was it.
Speaker C:And like, no one knew anything about was a brand new thing that, like, hadn't been on a drop list before.
Speaker C:And so we just kind of started asking around to, you know, other, you know, the other pilots and instructors, and everyone's just like, well, yeah, no, we don't really know anything about it.
Speaker C:We just know it's an AFSOC thing, which is Air Force Special Operations Command.
Speaker C:And we know it's like, I don't know, like, it's probably pretty cool.
Speaker C:And, you know, me being the idiot that I was was just like, oh, yeah, no, it does sound pretty cool.
Speaker C:Like, yeah, let's go give that a shot.
Speaker C:You know, and that kind of is what, you know, set me off in that trajectory and did that for, you know, most of my time when I was, when I was in.
Speaker B:That kind of sounds like your whole kind of aviation career, right?
Speaker B:You're like, oh, that sounds kind of cool.
Speaker B:Oh, you want to do special office?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you just followed the gu feeling.
Speaker B:You were like, my stomach's telling me to do it.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker C:Yeah, Very, very much so.
Speaker C:That's like the through line of, of essentially my professional career.
Speaker B:Well, they say trust your gut.
Speaker B:And it didn't seem to fail you on that part.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wanted to go back a little bit to.
Speaker B:You mentioned 911.
Speaker B:You mentioned, you could see the towers.
Speaker B:I want to talk.
Speaker B:I've never really had the opportunity to ask, like, what.
Speaker B:I mean, obviously we know about 911.
Speaker B:A lot of people, like pilots became.
Speaker B:Went to the military because of that.
Speaker B:What was it exactly, seeing that happen that made you want to join the military?
Speaker B:What made it switch in your brain?
Speaker B:Was it just, I need to protect my country, like, payback?
Speaker B:Or was it just like, this is my duty?
Speaker B:But what, like, kind of switched in your brain to be like, I need to go to the military?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I would probably say duty, right?
Speaker C:Like, you know.
Speaker C:You know, the other aspect of it is that, like, I. I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, you're expected to make so many life decisions when you're in high school, right?
Speaker C:And I was always kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, I guess, to put it politely.
Speaker C:And, you know, other.
Speaker C:Other, you know, kids that I was going to school with, like, they were really great at biology and they knew they wanted to be a doctor.
Speaker C:They were really great at this, and they knew they wanted to be a lawyer or whatever, or singers and.
Speaker C:And everything, right.
Speaker C:I didn't really have that one thing.
Speaker C:Like, I, you know, I played sports.
Speaker C:I was, like, decent in school.
Speaker C:Like, I was cool with all the nerds doing, like, tech stuff and.
Speaker C:And whatever, right?
Speaker C:But, like, there's not one thing that I was, like, extremely good at that I was like, ah, well, this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And, you know, when that happened, you know, I was, you know, I'd always been a very, you know, patriotic young American.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And, you know, just, you know, we, you know, we lost a friend of the family, you know, who, like, was working in the towers that day.
Speaker C:And, you know, every single person that you knew growing up there, you know, had some sort of, like, you know, degree of relation to somebody who was affected by that.
Speaker C:Right, Absolutely.
Speaker C:And so it just was like a. Yeah.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:This is the thing, right?
Speaker C:Like, this is what I was meant to do.
Speaker C:And, yeah, that's kind of what started the journey.
Speaker B:If it wasn't for 9 11, do you think you would have ever gone down this path?
Speaker C:Oh, no, absolutely not.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:What do you think you would be doing right now?
Speaker C:No concept, actually.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, it could have been that.
Speaker C:I mean, frankly.
Speaker C:But, like, you know, what's interesting is, like, you know, I joked about, like, being cool, the nerds and everything like that, and I. I love them.
Speaker C:Obviously, I'm in like a, in the tech world now I'm a non technical person, but like I'm getting smarter every day.
Speaker C:So the, the public school system where I grew up like wasn't, was not particularly good.
Speaker C:And there was a, I guess what most people would call a magnet school that's like a, it's a public school, but you have to apply to get into.
Speaker C:And it was like a kind of tech school, right, where like you, you did your normal classes in the beginning of the day and then you had a major in the afternoon.
Speaker C:And mine was computer drafting and design.
Speaker C:And so, you know, we actually had like a, one of the really early 3D printers.
Speaker C:Like, you know, this is back in.
Speaker C: Yeah, like: Speaker C:So like, you know, very early for a school to be able to get access to that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:And so I messed around with that stuff a lot.
Speaker C:And a lot of like the, you know, 3D animation, you know, the stuff that like Pixar and like Dreamworks have, you know, you know, used to, you know, turn into movies and everything like that.
Speaker C:And so that, you know, that's probably what I would have ended up being doing like something like architecture or something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so you make the decision.
Speaker B:You're going to the military.
Speaker B:You know, you're still not pilots on the radar.
Speaker B:Eventually they're like, hey, you're actually, you know, kind of smart.
Speaker B:We need some smart people to do some cool stuff, fly planes.
Speaker B:You just kind of said like, oh, that sounds cool, but did you really know what you're kind of signing yourself up for?
Speaker B:Was it, that sounds cool, let me check it out.
Speaker B:Or was it like, that sounds cool.
Speaker B:Here, let's go do it.
Speaker C:I did a shockingly small amount of research.
Speaker C:And so like I actually went in and you know, again, not really even recognizing that I was going to be training with the Navy and not really knowing the distinction between a T34 and a T6 or anything like that.
Speaker C:You know, didn't really do any study in advance, like I probably ought to have, but just kind of, kind of jumped in and you know, in hindsight, right, Like, I probably would have been better off and would have been able to learn quicker had I done more research.
Speaker C:But to a certain degree it did kind of help me because I was just like this, you know, blank mold of clay, right, that like they could teach me from the very beginning the way that they wanted to teach me.
Speaker C:Whereas a lot of people who kind of came in who were in the same classes as me and everything like, that they might have had their private pilot's license.
Speaker C:Maybe they had their.
Speaker C:Their cfi, maybe they had their commercial, and they had to kind of, like, you know, they had to break them down and, like, stop all a lot of the bad habits so that they could teach them in the way the Air Force wanted them to be taught.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I didn't have to worry about that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And there's also a lot of guys who, you know, I was with who washed out.
Speaker C:And, you know, maybe they came from a family where, like, their parents were fighter pilots or something like that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But they just had this, like, you know, immense generational pressure to succeed.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so, like, every single check ride they did was, like, the most important checkride of their life.
Speaker C:Whereas me, every single time I got to a check ride, I'd, like, salute the guy, and I'd be like, hey, man, like, we're gonna go find today.
Speaker C:Like, this is gonna be awesome.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:You know, so, like, I was just kind of playing with house money, in my opinion.
Speaker C:And so, like, every day, I got to go up there and, you know, and fly and learn and get better.
Speaker C:Was.
Speaker C:Was cool.
Speaker C:My book.
Speaker B:Did you ever have a moment where you're like, this is.
Speaker B:How did.
Speaker B:Like, this is way too much.
Speaker B:How did I get here?
Speaker B:Or were you just kind of all in?
Speaker B:You're like, this is fun.
Speaker B:I'm gonna do this as long as I can.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I don't really remember any.
Speaker C:Just, like, you know, moments of, like, panic or anything like that.
Speaker C:You know, instruments was definitely, like.
Speaker C:That was the thing that took the longest for me to.
Speaker C:To grok.
Speaker C:You know, I didn't really fully understand instruments until I got into the.
Speaker C:Into the T1, which is the Beach 400.
Speaker C:That's when things started to click.
Speaker C:When I was, like, in the T34, I was just, like, hanging on, trying to, like, you know, trying to keep up.
Speaker C:Like, I was.
Speaker C:I was much better at, you know, ironically, given what I ended up doing, you know, I was much better at aerobatics.
Speaker C:I was much better at form because it was all.
Speaker C:It's like, spatial awareness and, you know, everything like that.
Speaker C:And, like, that was what, you know, what I was better suited to do.
Speaker C:But the, you know, the book stuff of the, you know, the.
Speaker C:The instruments was the challenge for me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then, so you're going through training, you're doing well enough, where I'm guessing you had the opportunity to kind of choose what you'd want.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I'm guessing based on the conversation that we've had about how they told you, hey, you could be a pilot, or, you know, it just seemed like you worked hard, you put yourself in the position to give yourself options.
Speaker B:Is that correct?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I honestly can't remember where I had, you know, what.
Speaker C:What I ended up getting on my.
Speaker C:On my drop list.
Speaker C:But, yeah, you know, it was pretty high at the top, and I was probably the only one who was dumb enough to put something that no one knew anything about at the.
Speaker C:At the top of my list.
Speaker C:It was just like, oh, yeah, well, we got to give that to Tyler.
Speaker B:When you started your kind of Air Force training and when you started going through this process, did you have a goal that you wanted to do?
Speaker B:Were you like, I just want to fly fighters.
Speaker B:I wanted to fly big equipment.
Speaker B:You mentioned that you're really good with the spatial awareness and kind of flying in formation and doing aerobatics.
Speaker B:So was it kind of you wanted to fly fighters, you wanted to eventually do Thunderbird stuff, or were you kind of just open anything?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I was kind of open to anything, but I. I didn't particularly want to go fighters.
Speaker C:Like, I wanted to travel.
Speaker C:You know, I never really got to see the world when I was a.
Speaker C:A kid.
Speaker C:You know, we'd take the occasional, you know, family vacation from New Jersey to Ohio or whatever.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But that was about it.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And so, you know, getting the opportunity to really go out there and, you know, spread my wings and, you know, see the world and everything, like, that was definitely very appealing to me.
Speaker C:And so the heavy community was.
Speaker C:Was definitely, like, the.
Speaker C:The way to go for that.
Speaker C:And, you know, with what I ended up doing, like, I flew operationally in about 67 different countries, so I would say that I def.
Speaker C:I definitely, you know, managed.
Speaker C:Managed to do that.
Speaker B:Yeah, you check that box for sure.
Speaker B:All right, so drop comes.
Speaker B:Everyone's probably talking.
Speaker B:You know, they're.
Speaker B:They're saying what they want to do, they're saying what they want to do.
Speaker B:When you got, you know, the drop came up, I don't know if they did it how they do now.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Like, every time on Instagram of swiping, it's like you have a big presentation, then you see the same picture.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:So when you get.
Speaker B:Get special operations or.
Speaker B:It wasn't even labeled that.
Speaker B:Whatever was labeled, is everyone just, like, really?
Speaker B:You wanted to do that?
Speaker B:Like, we thought, like, what?
Speaker C:Yeah, no, there's a lot of just, like, polite, you know, golf clapping, like, oh, yeah, like, okay, cool.
Speaker B:Good luck.
Speaker B:Dude.
Speaker C:And you know, it honestly wasn't even until I actually got to my first base that I, you know, they told me what plane I was going to be flying.
Speaker C:And so, you know, it was several months later after, after drop where I still didn't really have much information.
Speaker C:But like you go from, from, you know, your, your drop night to you know, you finish up the rest of your academics and you graduate and have a formal graduation, then a couple months later you go to survival school and then a couple months later you end up at your, you know, first squadron.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then what was your expectations versus realistically what happened?
Speaker B:Like you mentioned, I didn't really give you much information.
Speaker B:So were you just like, I don't really know what's going to happen.
Speaker B:Did once you got accepted, did you have like a little community you could reach out to or is it just like, we'll let you know when you need to know what's going to happen?
Speaker C:Yeah, there, there is not much.
Speaker C:You know, it was all just kind of hearsay and like word of mouth and stuff like that in terms of what, what you were going to be doing.
Speaker C:But, but yeah, I mean it was when I finally got to, you know, the, the squadron, they're just like, hey, like has anyone told you what plane you're flying?
Speaker C:And I was like, nope.
Speaker C:They're just like, oh, it's a, it's called a Dornier 328.
Speaker C:And I was like, okay, yeah, Google, I guess I will look that up then.
Speaker B:You know, I have seen a couple of Dorniers when I was flying aerial survey.
Speaker B:We used to go, I can't remember where I was.
Speaker B:I think it was called Barry Aviation and I think they did contract flying with the military in their Dorniers.
Speaker B:So I don't know if it was similar if you flew those Dorniers or not, but I would see them all lined up.
Speaker B:It's like, that'd be sweet to fly.
Speaker B:And someone's like, that's like real hush hush stuff.
Speaker B:Like we don't talk about what they do with those.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, I'm not too familiar with, with Barry.
Speaker C:I know that they're, they're a contractor, but yeah, they've got a pretty, how do you say they've got a, they've got a fleet with just a lot of different, you know, different aircraft in it.
Speaker C:But, but yeah, no, it was a great plane for what we needed it to do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so, you know, you know, there's plenty of information on, on the Internet.
Speaker C:You know, most of it is honestly probably bad, but the, you know, it was essentially intra theater, special operations, mobility.
Speaker C:And so it was not the kind of plane that is obviously able to go from the US to, you know, a deployed AOR very easily.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It takes, you know, a week to get from the US to, like, Africa or the Middle east or something like that, because you got to do the whole hop up through, like, Greenland and Iceland and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:So, you know, how it work is essentially like, we'd have some aircraft within an AOR when we deploy.
Speaker C:We'd go there.
Speaker C:We'd spend three to four months there with the planes, and then everything that we did was just, you know, moving teams where they needed to go within that aor.
Speaker C:And so, you know, the.
Speaker C:Whether it's seals, Rangers, Green Brace, whoever, like, they knew that they could call us, and we were able to respond, you know, a lot quicker than, you know, other, you know, you know, large, like, Air Mobility Command assets that the Air Force has.
Speaker B:So what kind of flying would this be then?
Speaker B:I'm guessing a lot of this was flying to smaller, not necessarily like, your bigger bases, or was it small flying into places that planes really aren't used to landing?
Speaker B:Or was it off airport stuff?
Speaker B:Kind of talk about where you would actually fly to and drop off and pick up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So all of the above, you know, is very much like hub and spoke stuff.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, you know, C17, C130, drops off, you know, a bunch of teams in, you know, at, like, a large Air Force base or something like that within an aor and then we take them from, you know, there to wherever it is within the AOR that they need to go.
Speaker C:And we're able to do that, like, pretty rapidly.
Speaker C:You know, most Air Mobility Command assets, like, they essentially have, like, what's called tacc, which is up at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois.
Speaker C:That's essentially like an airlines version of, like, you know, an operations center, like schedulers and dispatchers.
Speaker C:And whatnot.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That they handle all the scheduling and the diplomatic clearances and fuel planning and all that kind of stuff, and they just, like, hand the crew a packet, essentially.
Speaker C:We were kind of set up intentionally as, like, an autonomous, like, unit where we, like, handled all that stuff internally, which was a huge pain, like, taught me a lot.
Speaker C:But it did allow us to be able to kind of move pretty quickly.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, it was the kind of thing that, like, we're doing the fuel plans, we're doing the flight plans, but then we're also the one that's like, you know, calling some, you know, tower at some, like, little, you know, airport in the middle of nowhere, you know, asking for permission.
Speaker C:We're talking to the embassies and everything like that, to be able to get approval to land places.
Speaker C:And so it was pain, but, you know, it taught us a lot and also allowed us to, you know, move really quickly.
Speaker C:But yeah, going, going back to your original question is that, like, it could be.
Speaker C:It was, it was different every day, right?
Speaker C:Like, some days you're just going from like, one big military base to, like, another airport within the aor.
Speaker C:Sometimes you're going to, like, a little dirt strip in the middle of nowhere on NVGs at night and landing in a tiny little box of IR lights.
Speaker C:And so, like, that was the kind of thing that we, like, trained for.
Speaker C:You didn't do it that much, right?
Speaker C:But, like, that was the thing that you had to train for the most, just because when it happened, it was a no joke, like, you had to make it happen kind of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And a lot of people that I talk to when they're in the military, when they finally get deployed, you know, they kind of feel a sense of pride.
Speaker B:They're like, I finally get to do what I've been training for for so long.
Speaker B:Would you agree with that?
Speaker B:When you're out there like, oh, this is the mission.
Speaker B:We're finally gonna do it.
Speaker B:Were you kind of, like, hyped up or were you ready to go?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, no, no, absolutely.
Speaker C:And, and it was, it was kind of wild, you know, like, you know, I finished up pilot training with probably like 200 hours, something like that, and then probably had about 50 in the actual aircraft before my first deployment.
Speaker C:And, you know, I went out to Africa for my first one.
Speaker C:You know, neither me nor my pilot in command had ever been there before.
Speaker C:The guy who is my pic, my aircraft commander, had less hours in the Dornier than I did.
Speaker C:And so it was like the blind leading the blind to a certain degree.
Speaker C:But, like, you know, I. I look back on it now and I'm just like, oh, my gosh, like, how did, like, how did we do that without, like, you know, messing something up terribly?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But at the time, you know, the training is good, and so you feel really confident and maybe a little overconfident.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But it all worked out, man.
Speaker B:When did you feel comfortable in your deployments?
Speaker B:Was it just like, you know, day one, Strap up, you ready to go?
Speaker B:You felt like you could trust your training or was it, you know, a Couple missions in, you're finally like, all right, this is the job.
Speaker B:I know what I'm doing.
Speaker B:I feel, I feel confident in doing, doing this.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I was very fortunate that I got to deploy to every single one of our AORs.
Speaker C:And it was really much like a, the first month is a struggle because you're still trying to understand the lay of the land.
Speaker C:You're trying to understand, you know, what are the big things that you need to be concerned about in every single aor.
Speaker C:And also just the language barrier.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, even though, you know, you know, English is the, the language of aviation, you still have a, you know, it's still difficult to interpret what, what people are saying in, in every one of these places, especially when you're going to like, smaller, you know, non capital cities, you know, in, in these countries.
Speaker C:And so getting over that over the first month was like the biggest challenge, but then like the second month you kind of figure things out and then like the third and fourth month, like you're pretty, pretty confident.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then just in time for you to have to train the next person in the go.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Geez.
Speaker B:Did you have any memorable flights?
Speaker B:Do you have anyone.
Speaker B:I mean, obviously you can't speak probably of everything that you've done over there, but do you have any, like, very memorable flights that stick out, whether it was just a crazy day with crazy environment, crazy landing experience, or just like a high profile mission or something that just went wrong?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, I've got, I've got one of those from, from or you know, at least one of those from every single AOR I went to.
Speaker C:You know, I would say that, like, there, there was some very important life lesson and flying lesson that I learned in every aor.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:In like Africa, it's fuel management.
Speaker C:You spend a lot of time flying over the Sahara and there's nowhere to go.
Speaker C:Right in the Pacific.
Speaker C:It was weather, some of the worst weather that I've ever seen and the worst, like icing and everything like that that I've gotten has been flying, you know, in, in, in the Pacific in South America.
Speaker C:You know, VFR flying and mountainous train.
Speaker C:You know, that was a significant, you know, you know, learning experience there because we just don't do that much in, in the U.S. right.
Speaker C:Like everything is radar.
Speaker C:You know, you can, you know, always get an IFR flight plan, but like, once you kind of get out of like Bogota or something like that, like you're just kind of flying around vfr, you know.
Speaker C:Now, fortunately, there's just not as many planes there, so you don't have to worry about that as much.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:But yeah, no, it was, it was great.
Speaker C:And, you know, I feel like it did make me a pretty well rounded.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, pilot.
Speaker C:Given all that.
Speaker B:What was your favorite place to fly?
Speaker C:Oh, I mean, in terms of, like, fun flying, like South America, I would say, like, it was just a lot of like, you know, vfr.
Speaker C:Like, you're following rivers and stuff like that to be able to like, get to where you're going.
Speaker C:It's like, that was genuinely enjoyable.
Speaker C:But there's a lot of places that like, like I love in every single AOR that, you know.
Speaker C:You know, we kind of lived off the economy, right?
Speaker C:So, like, we weren't on military bases most of the time.
Speaker C:We were living, you know, in hotels or safe houses or, or whatever.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And we're wearing spoon clothes.
Speaker C:And so we're just kind of like, you know, going into town, like, grabbing some food.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so a lot of places that, like, I, I thoroughly loved going and like, would love to go back.
Speaker C:And then there's obviously some places that I don't particularly care to
Speaker B:when it comes to Special Ops.
Speaker B:You know, people there, the first thing I think of is like Seal Team 6 or the Green Berets and just being a seal in general, but for phone dropped, but for this itself.
Speaker B:From the pilot side, was there extra training?
Speaker B:Was there kind of like a.
Speaker B:A Buds, I think it's called like a Buds Week or like a Hell week?
Speaker B:Was there anything like that involved with being a pilot as well?
Speaker B:That that made it, I don't want to say more intense because obviously training is intense as it is, but kind of like that whole Special Ops feeling,
Speaker C:not so much on the, on the pilot side.
Speaker C:You know, my first squadron commander, who I loved a lot, you know, always used to say that, like, just because your patch says special does not mean you're special.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And, you know, he, he wanted to make sure that we, you know, knew that like, you know, we were supposed to be quiet professionals and we were supposed to just train really hard and work really hard, but, like, not make a big, you know, deal and big stink about it.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because at the end of the day, we're just pilots.
Speaker C:And, you know, you just kind of happen to get that on your drop sheet, right?
Speaker C:Like, you know, they should theoretically be finding people who are going to actually be able to do the job, you know, and then they shouldn't, you know, give them that position on.
Speaker C:On the drop.
Speaker C:But it is still kind of luck of the draw.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But it was the level of training that we had to do and had to, you know, complete that.
Speaker C:You know, I, I feel like, did kind of, you know, set us up for, for success.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so, you know, the very first time you're taking a 30,000 pound plane into a 20 foot wide, you know, or try 25 foot wide, like dirt strip in the middle of nowhere on nights on, on NVGs, like, you kind of have to have your stuff figured out, you know.
Speaker C:And so, you know, we, we did that, we trained a lot to that, that standard.
Speaker C:And you know, you get to the point where, like, you're actually pretty confident in it.
Speaker B:You know, you get to the point where I kind of would rather land like that than land the other way.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, don't give me the 100 foot fit or 150 foot Runway.
Speaker B:I'll mess up on that one.
Speaker B:Give me 25.
Speaker C:Oh, no, no.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:And then like when you go back and forth between the two, like on any given day, you're just like, oh my God, this is.
Speaker B:Yeah, you got a good landing in the dirt one, then you bring them back like, dude, what the heck, man?
Speaker B:You got a lot screwed it up that bad.
Speaker B:What's wrong with you?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, so the, the funny story, and I have no idea whether or not this is true, but the, the wheelbase was 11ft wide on the Dornier and the minimum Runway width was 22ft wide.
Speaker C:And rumor has it that like, whoever stood with the squadron just kind of took the wheelbase and doubled it and was just like, yeah, that's probably good enough.
Speaker C:Sign that off.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker C:They'll, they'll figure it out, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're essential.
Speaker B:They'll make it work.
Speaker B:If not, whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah, five feet on either side, it'll be good.
Speaker B:They're like, no one knows they're down there anyways.
Speaker B:We'll just leave them.
Speaker B:What was I gonna ask?
Speaker B:Did you ever.
Speaker B:So you drop people off, I'm guessing it was kind of like a very need to know.
Speaker B:Like you don't really know what they're gonna go do, but maybe you do.
Speaker B:I could be wrong, but do you ever get back?
Speaker B:I mean, it could even be like years from now and you hear a story on the news in an area where you know that they could only have got to by you flying them, and you're like, oh, that's what they were doing.
Speaker B:Have you ever had that moment?
Speaker C:So we, generally speaking, we're not like completely in the know, you know, we would Just kind of drop them off and you have a general idea of, like, what's going on.
Speaker C:But, like, for the most part, like, we're just not as cool as them.
Speaker C:And, like, you don't need to know, like, all those details, right?
Speaker C:We're just kind of focused on, like, all right, I'll get you from point A to point B, right?
Speaker C:Drop you guys off and.
Speaker C:And then, you know, you let us know when you need to be picked up kind of deal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What was it like when you drop, you know, high professionals that are training for missions and going out to do some crazy things?
Speaker B:What was the interaction with them like, was.
Speaker B:It was nervous nerves on their.
Speaker A:Where they just.
Speaker B:Just the normal guys just like, shooting the breeze.
Speaker B:And as soon as you land, they're like, all right, mission time.
Speaker B:See you, dude.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, the.
Speaker C:Those guys are great.
Speaker C:And, you know, typically, like, you'd be kind of, you know, on a deployment, like, it'd be the same team that you're working with most of the time because, like, that's just kind of how their rotations work.
Speaker C:And so over the course deployment, like, you'd get pretty familiar with them.
Speaker C:You're on the phone with them a lot.
Speaker C:Like, you're seeing them in person and just like, super, you know, super chill guys, right?
Speaker C:Like, there's not like, you know, any like, very humble people, right?
Speaker C:Even though that.
Speaker C:That's obviously not like, the, you know, the way that they're probably perceived in.
Speaker C:In, you know, you know, on like, social media or in movies or anything like that.
Speaker C:But, like, yeah, super, super humble folks who, like, they appreciate what you're doing, right?
Speaker C:Because, like, you're the way that they're getting from point A to point B, so they don't have to, like, like, you know, be in a jeep for two weeks or whatever, right?
Speaker C:So it was always the.
Speaker C:The times where, like, we had to move somebody who was like, you know, an aide to a general or something like that, where they'd just be like, uppity and obnoxious, right?
Speaker C:Like, asking where the catering is.
Speaker C:It's like, bro, come on, you bring it yourself.
Speaker C:All right, I've got a bagel.
Speaker C:I've got a bagel up in the cockpit.
Speaker B:He's like, well, that's my bagel now.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So how do you.
Speaker B:What's it like when you line up for your first 25 foot wide landing in the middle of nowhere on night vision goggles?
Speaker B:Do you feel like you're fully prepared for that moment, or can you not really be prepared for what that feels like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think you can really be prepared for that.
Speaker C:And funny enough, like, just the other day, so I'm here in Arkansas, and I got asked to.
Speaker C:To guest teach a.
Speaker C:A class for, like, an aviation systems and safety class at the U of A.
Speaker C:And I did it all on.
Speaker C:On NVGs, and, like, how great NVGs are, but also the visual illusions that, you know, come along with that, because you've got a reduced field of vision, you've got no depth perception, it's monochromatic, Right?
Speaker C:And so it's the kind of thing that you have to be training for all the time, consistently, otherwise you can put yourself into a really bad spot, right?
Speaker C:And it's just, you know, you're looking through, like, a little, you know, soda straw, essentially, right?
Speaker C:And it's green and, you know, depending on where the.
Speaker C:The moon is in the sky and how much other illumination you have and the shadows that you get, like, dictates what you're able to see well.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And so a lot of people, you know, have unfortunately crashed planes just because of the visual illusions that they get from nvps.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so, you know, it's the kind of thing that, like, if I went, you know, a couple months without doing an MVG flight and I got back into it, like, I had to force myself to, like, oh, okay, remember the basics, right?
Speaker C:Just, like, keep scanning your vision, right?
Speaker C:Don't let yourself get hyper focused.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, like, the first time I went out on MPGS to a little dirt strip, and, you know, they'd set up, like, a little IR light box, essentially.
Speaker C:I can't remember what the dimensions of that were, but it's pretty small.
Speaker C:And, you know, you're expected to land in the box, right?
Speaker C:And of course, like, I happen to be there with the squadron commander, like, in the.
Speaker C:Of course, you know, in the seat.
Speaker C:Left seat.
Speaker C:And of course, like, I really wanted to impress the guy, right?
Speaker C:And so, you know, we're coming down.
Speaker C:You got to kind of, like, aim short of the box, right?
Speaker C:So that, like, you end up landing in the box and you pull power and you float a little bit.
Speaker C:And I landed in the box.
Speaker C:I smashed it into the box.
Speaker C:Like, it was probably the hardest landing that I've ever had to this day, because I just wanted it so bad, right?
Speaker C:And, you know, we, you know, I pulled into Beta, and we come to a stop on the.
Speaker C:On the landing strip or whatever.
Speaker C:And, you know, the.
Speaker C:The squadron commander, because he's seen, you know, he's seen this a million times, right.
Speaker C:He just kind of keeps looking forward and he's just like, all right, can you just flare next time?
Speaker C:And I was like, yeah, no, no.
Speaker C:Yes, sir, most definitely.
Speaker C:I will remember to flare, no problem.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Sorry, I'm gonna go cry.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker C:Got it out of my system, but.
Speaker C:But then, you know, you.
Speaker C:You figure it out over time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you mentioned Trevor, right?
Speaker B:We talked about him before.
Speaker B:When you guys met up and would share stories, was he just like, you're doing what?
Speaker B:He's like, I mean, I thought I was doing crazy stuff, but, like, I'm just flying an air show, right?
Speaker B:Like, I mean, obviously the Thunderbirds, there's more and what he was doing, but it's like, it's not really just.
Speaker B:Was he just kind of shocked when what you could tell him.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:It was always a lot of fun to kind of share stories about that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because it's just a very different.
Speaker C:The fighter community and the special operations community are just like, very different.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Universes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, you know, fighter community all has call signs.
Speaker C:Like, we were all on a first name basis.
Speaker C:And then like, you compare that to like Air Mobility Command folks, and then it's very much like, like, you know, Captain such and such and Sergeant such and such.
Speaker C:And sometimes like, you know, we'd be, you know, I'd be out and about with like one of the enlisted, you know, air crew that, you know, was with us all the time.
Speaker C:You're on a four month appointment with this person, right?
Speaker C:Like, you're wearing civilian clothes.
Speaker C:You're in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker C:You're not going to refer to each other by Sergeant such and such.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, that would be ridiculous.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So it's just like, hey, Bob, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But then like, some chief master sergeant would like, overhear me, you know, like calling my, you know, enlisted air crew by their first name and like, get all butt hurt about it.
Speaker C:It's like, bro, come on, man.
Speaker C:Like, we're in the same cockpit, we're in the same places for, you know, four months.
Speaker C:Like, I, I don't care.
Speaker C:I'm going to call this person what I want to want to call them.
Speaker C:And so, like, the dynamics between all the different, you know, you know, flying cultures are.
Speaker C:Are super interesting, you know, but it was always fun to hear his stories and, you know, it was a very just, you know, different.
Speaker C:Different kind of universe.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like when they'd get back from a deployment, like, because their whole squadron, right.
Speaker C:Would like Deploy at the same time.
Speaker C:And like, there'd be like a, you know, ticker tape parade or whatever.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:You know, it's like I'd get back from a deployment, I'd land on a commercial flight, and a buddy of mine would like drive an hour and a half to pick me up from the airport and like, I'd show back up at the squad on the next day and people were just like, oh, hey, where you been?
Speaker B:Finally back.
Speaker C:I got some, I got some TPS reports for you to fill out.
Speaker B:Yeah, you got 100 emails you got to respond to.
Speaker A:As owner operators, we care about how an aircraft is built, not just how it looks on the ramp.
Speaker A:And that's where Textron Aviation stands apart from the Cessna 182, known for its stability, load carrying capability and everyday reliability.
Speaker A:To one of my favorite airplanes and a plane that I have over a thousand hours in and would trust with my life is the Caravan.
Speaker A:Trusted around the world for its rugged design and proven systems.
Speaker A:These are aircraft engineered to work and built to last.
Speaker A:It's craftsmanship you feel in the controls and pride you carry every time you fly.
Speaker A:Because pride of ownership is confidence in your aircraft, every system, every flight.
Speaker A:Explore ownership@txttav.com that's txt.com did you.
Speaker B:So you kind of came in aviation with no idea that this is what you wanted to do, right?
Speaker B:Like, you just kind of fell into it.
Speaker B:Your own words.
Speaker B:Would you say that you fully love, like, did you fully get bitten by the bug?
Speaker B:Were you just kind of like, it's still cool, but it's not what I want to do forever or kind of just talk about your dynamic of how you felt about aviation as you're going to transition out of the military.
Speaker B:And did you want to fly?
Speaker B:Was that like, important to you or you kind of open other things?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, you know, I love aviation, I love flying, but there's always been a lot of other things that I've been interested in.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like I like building things, I like working on projects.
Speaker C:I like trying to, you know, make things more efficient and effective and, you know, create value in places.
Speaker C:And you know, I always, one of, you know, one of my problems being in the military was like, it's, you know, it's very much an inside the box kind of, kind of kind of thing, unfortunately.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You don't just kind of get to create side projects and like run with it and, you know, get adoption within the military.
Speaker C:There's processes for, for all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:And so I was Pretty excited when I got out with the, you know, the possibility of, like, he, I want to go somewhere, I want to keep flying, because obviously, like, that's what I know how to do.
Speaker C:But ultimately, I want to find an industry or segment of the industry where I can make a difference, you know.
Speaker C:And so when I got out, like, I could have gone to the airlines.
Speaker C:I had started working on my applications and everything like that, but then I did a Skillbridge program.
Speaker C:So Skillbridge is like, when you're in the military, within your final six months of being in the military, you can, like, volunteer to do an internship essentially at a company.
Speaker C:And so you remain on active duty, so the company can't pay you because you're still getting paid by the taxpayer.
Speaker C:Thank you very much for that.
Speaker C:And so I went out and I went to Los Angeles and interned at this, like, a little aviation tech startup that was out there, and it was super interesting.
Speaker C:Had a great experience, met a lot of really great people, and kind of like, got bit by the startup bug.
Speaker C:And so, you know, through that, ended up meeting some, you know, folks out there who are brokers.
Speaker C:They had a buddy who just bought a plane in.
Speaker C:In Arkansas and was like, hey, you know, friend just bought a plane, you know, looking for a chief pilot.
Speaker C:You know, I think you really like the area.
Speaker C:It's super family friendly.
Speaker C:You got young kids.
Speaker C:And so we came out and visited and just so happened, you know, Trevor was also moving, you know, here at the same time, we're just like, oh, my gosh, this is just perfect.
Speaker C:And so, you know, did that for several years.
Speaker C:You know, had to learn a lot about par 91.
Speaker C:You know, like, I'd.
Speaker C:Man, you know, like, I.
Speaker C:Again, I. I just kind of, like, didn't really think about it too much.
Speaker C:I was just like, oh, yeah, that seems cool.
Speaker C:Let's go do that, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:How hard could this be?
Speaker C:You know, like, I'd managed planes in the military.
Speaker C:Like, in my final deployment, I was a deployed squadron commander.
Speaker C:So I had 35 people under my command and, you know, a handful of planes flying operations everywhere.
Speaker C:I was like, yeah, surely I can manage a Part 91 plane.
Speaker C:And then, of course I get there and it's like, you know, insurance and taxes and loas and like, all the stuff that, like, I was just not familiar with.
Speaker C:So I had to, you know, pretty quickly get.
Speaker C:Get spun up on all that.
Speaker C:But, you know, my.
Speaker C:My hope with.
Speaker C:With corporate aviation, which, you know, has turned out to be true, I think, is that, you know, it's a very fragmented industry, right?
Speaker C:You've got, like 22,000 business aircraft.
Speaker C:You've got hundreds of thousands of pilots.
Speaker C:You know, most of the business aircraft are all, like, single aircraft operations, which means you have, like, thousands of flight departments.
Speaker C:And I was like, you know, if I go into that industry, I'm bound to, like, find something that, like, is going to be interesting, that, like, I might be able to, like, work on and fix and, and try to make better and.
Speaker C:Yeah, so that's kind of where I
Speaker B:am now before we get into kind of what you're doing now.
Speaker B:I played sports all the way up to college, and a lot of people that didn't make it to the NFL and when they went to kind of the real, quote, unquote, the real world, they.
Speaker B:They struggled with transitioning out of, you know, in sports and military, every single hour, every single minute of every single day is almost planned, right?
Speaker B:Like, you, you know what you're going to do, you know, what you're eating for lunch.
Speaker B:You know, when you're going to be able to study.
Speaker B:You know, you're gonna, like, everything is planned.
Speaker B:And when you get out of that and you get back into the real world, as you would probably call it, the civilian world, was that a difficult transition for you?
Speaker B:Do you think you were set up for success with that, or is that something that you struggled with?
Speaker C:So, I, I wouldn't say that I struggled with it.
Speaker C:I know that obviously a lot of people do, and so I, I don't want to, you know, know, demean the, the stroke or anything like that.
Speaker C:But, like, I, I've, you know, at least for the last, like, you know, three or four years of me being in the military, like, I knew I was going to get out, right?
Speaker C:And so, like, I kind of had one foot out the door already where I was, like, trying to meet people in other industries and, you know, learn skills, you know, outside of just like, being a, you know, a military officer and everything like that.
Speaker C:And so I wouldn't say that I had, like, a huge plan.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, one of the reasons that so many, you know, people go from the military, aviation to the airlines is because, like, it's a very easy transition, right?
Speaker C:It's like a, you know, you fill out the checklist, you, you know, fill out your profile, you send, you know, the applications in, you go through their whole process.
Speaker C:It's very regimented.
Speaker C:And then, you know, you get into the airlines, and then, you know, life is.
Speaker C:Life is good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so I wouldn't say that I had like a, you know, a huge grand plan.
Speaker C:But like, like I'd been thinking about it for so long that like the transition and like the, you know, I'm no longer, you know, a, a major in the Air Force, like, wasn't like a huge moment of panic or anything like that.
Speaker C:But then there's a lot of people who like kind of unfortunately, right.
Speaker C:They get injured or something like that and they kind of get thrust into that and, and, and it's a, it's challenge.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just two totally different worlds.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, you can be a superhero in one world.
Speaker B:Everyone can look up to you.
Speaker B:You're the rank, you're, or you're the best quarterback, whatever it is.
Speaker B:Then you come to the real world, people are like, that's cool.
Speaker B:But like, can you do a spreadsheet?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you know how to tag someone in email?
Speaker B:Do you know how to not reply all like, it's just such a different world, right?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so you are managing the, the plane.
Speaker B:You're PC24.
Speaker B:You're flying that all the way around.
Speaker B:What was it like going from doing these special missions, flying these like, really intense people to just flying a businessman?
Speaker B:Was that also difficult or.
Speaker B:Because you mentioned before your favorite flying was kind of like the exciting flying.
Speaker B:It's not necessarily just flying IFR from point to point.
Speaker B:Was that difficult to go to?
Speaker C:No, no.
Speaker C:I mean, I, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, you know, I was fortunate that the, you know, the schedule that we had was very much a part 91, you know, kind of schedule.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:175 hours a year or something like that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So like nothing, nothing aggressive of, you know, the, the, the, the gentleman that I was working for was, was great.
Speaker C:And like, you know, there was one time I think, where, you know, he texted me in the morning and was just like, hey, we kind of have an emergency.
Speaker C:Like, is there any chance you're able to like, you know, fly today?
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, yeah, no, sure.
Speaker C:I mean, I'll have the thing ready for in like an hour, like maybe at the airport.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But most of the other trips, like, they were planned out well in advance.
Speaker C:That's good.
Speaker C:And so it wasn't, you know, a huge achievement adjust, you know, adjustment there.
Speaker C:It was really weird for me getting used to flying single pilot, you know, for like the first year and a half we only had dual pilot insurance.
Speaker C:And so I had to find somebody to fly with me every single time.
Speaker C:But then once we got Single pilot.
Speaker C:I was able to obviously do most of the single pilot myself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And yeah, it was, it was an interesting dynamic, right.
Speaker C:Just because like I, I was a crew dog, right?
Speaker C:Like I was used to having somebody to talk to and I would just be in the cockpit, like reading off checklists to myself, you know, and like flaps, gear flaps, you know, just like,
Speaker B:you know, everything about that plane.
Speaker B:Read the PO covered it back 10 times.
Speaker C:Sound like a crazy person talking to myself, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The guy comes like, is that you talking to yourself?
Speaker B:Are you seeing show tunes?
Speaker B:Like, I don't know.
Speaker B:Don't worry about it, dude, just worry about it that we get there safely.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:So you mentioned, well, I know this, but no one else knows this, but you mentioned, not yet at least you were looking, always looking for another pilot.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:The first question is, was that because you needed enough time to get the single pilot insurance, was that solely based on the pilot itself for the dual pilot insurance, it was just waiting on you to get 250 in type or 150 in type, or was it just.
Speaker B:That was just the best option for the owner?
Speaker C:Well, so it was, it was prohibitively expensive in the very beginning.
Speaker C:People didn't really know how to underwrite the PC24 because it was a brand new plane.
Speaker C:It was one of the earliest serial numbers.
Speaker C:And so it was just very expensive to get dual pilot or single pilot insurance instead.
Speaker C:That was the kind of the limit factor there.
Speaker B:And then you were constantly looking for pilots, right?
Speaker B:Was that a big challenge, would you say?
Speaker B:Or was it not as hard as you thought?
Speaker C:Yeah, but that was a huge pain.
Speaker C:So, you know, if we had a flight, you know, once a week or something like that, I had to spend, you know, three, four days like working on, trying to, you know, find, you know, some names of pilots, have them send me pilot history forms, send those pilot history forms to the insurance broker to like get a thumbs up, up.
Speaker C:Just that alone was like a two or three day cycle, right.
Speaker C:Finally get a thumbs up from them, you know, sign a pilot services agreement with the person, share a bunch of information about the plane, where we're going, the itinerary, the mission, the company, everything like that.
Speaker C:And then I gotta like loop them in with the accountants to make sure they're gonna get paid and then do the flight.
Speaker C:And then after the flight you gotta do like receipts and everything.
Speaker C:It was just like, it was a constant like never ending pain in the butt, frankly, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I also just didn't feel like you Know, I could justify going to my boss and being like, hey, man, like, let's just go to a staffing firm that's going to charge you a 30 to 50 markup because I'm, like, too lazy to do all this work on my own.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You know, and so, yeah, it was a pain.
Speaker C:And like, you know, like, people were finding pilots on Facebook groups and still are today, and I didn't even have a Facebook account because I got rid of that when I, you know, went into afsoc.
Speaker C:And so it's just like, it was just.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was just a never ending, like, annoyance for me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then you decided you wanted to fix that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That was like the.
Speaker B:Did you have an epiphany one day?
Speaker B:You're like, I'm just tired of doing this.
Speaker B:I can do this better.
Speaker B:Or just right place, right time.
Speaker B:Decided to walk away and then work on this.
Speaker C:Yeah, no.
Speaker C:Right place, right time.
Speaker C:And also, you know, a lot of inspiration from, you know, friends of mine who, you know, had, you know, thought through this kind of thing, you know, previously, but, you know, ultimately just kind of put out like, a very basic alpha version of.
Speaker C:Of what.
Speaker C:What, you know, has become flying company.
Speaker C:And it was limited to just the PC 24.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, marketplaces are hard.
Speaker C:Marketplaces suck.
Speaker C:That's why, like, literally every single person I talked to in the very beginning was just like, please, Tyler, don't do this.
Speaker C:And I was like, well, you know, I'm dumb and I'm stubborn, so I'm going to do it anyway.
Speaker C:But, you know, you have to limit yourself in some capacity when you build a marketplace.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like Uber, Airbnb.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It was limited to just like, you know, downtown San Francisco or something like that in the very beginning.
Speaker C:But you can't geographically limit with aviation, obviously, so I just limited it to one model.
Speaker C:So I sent out the alpha version to, you know, some PC 24 pilots that I, you know, knew and was good friends with and send out some operators who had flown as a contract pilot for in the past and just kind of sat back and watched what happened.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then, you know, the Plotus Owners and Pilots association approached me and was like, hey, can you add the PC12 on there?
Speaker C:And I was, okay, I don't know that much about the PC 12, but I'll figure it out.
Speaker C:Then did that.
Speaker C:And again, just kind of like, it was a little side project for me, but I just kind of, you know, listened to feedback and talked to people and tried to get a better idea, like where the value, you know, was.
Speaker C:And, you know, you kind of fast forward now and, you know, we're, you know, supporting citations and Embraer, Gulfstream, Falcon, Bombardier, you know, what have you.
Speaker C:And, you know, the focus is essentially like, you know, from the, from the operator's perspective, you know, we want to make it as easy as possible them to find and assess and hire and pay pilots all in one place.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Being able to kind of give your internal flight department team all the tools they need to be able to handle their staffing internally without spending a bunch of time, but also without having to, you know, go to a staffing firm that charges a significant markup.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then from the pilot's perspective, being able to allow them to very easily, like, contract directly with companies, you know, because, I mean, a lot of professional pilots, you know, who are, especially ones who are doing contract work, often have their own LLCs, and they would love to be able to just run all their trips through the LLCs.
Speaker C:They're in a tax, you know, optimized state and everything like that.
Speaker C:But then, you know, when they accept the job from a staffing firm, they, you know, that that firm typically forces them to be a W2 employee, and so that therefore they get like 40 withholding taken out immediately.
Speaker C:And, you know, so there's just a lot of friction and pain points on, on either side.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And that's kind of what we're trying to resolve.
Speaker B:So how does it look like for a pilot?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Is it just essentially like a pool of pilots?
Speaker B:Like, you just put your name in there and then say, I have I own citation latitude.
Speaker B:All right, cool.
Speaker B:So I go on your website, I type in citation latitude pilots, and just every single person that has a latitude current type rating will pop up.
Speaker B:Or can you, like, search it like, all right, I want a latitude pilot with 5,000 hours in type or 20,000 total time or that lives in a special location.
Speaker C:Yeah, so.
Speaker C:So we took a very different approach to this than.
Speaker C:Than other folks have.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And there's obviously, you know, there's a lot of different people who've tried to solve this problem.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's not a unique problem.
Speaker C:Everyone is just kind of approached in a different way.
Speaker C:And so we've taken the, you know, we want to kind of handle the, you know, help you handle the thing from beginning to end on a trip by trip basis.
Speaker C:So the way that it works from a pilot's perspective is it's totally free.
Speaker C:You just kind of go, you sign up, you fill out your profile, and the Profile is designed to be able to help you kind of showcase, you know, your professionalism and your experience.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, and this is a whole kind of sidebar.
Speaker C:But, like, you know, hours has been used as this proxy for professionalism forever.
Speaker C:Right, but it's a terrible proxy.
Speaker C:You know, like, we all know people who have 10,000 hours who, like, we'd rather not fly with again, and people with 2,000 hours who are extremely professional and on time and great and familiar with SOPs and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:And so, like, how do we showcase the whole pilot?
Speaker C:And that's kind of what the profile is meant to do.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So it covers all the basics, all the regulatory, like, search ratings, type ratings and everything like that.
Speaker C:You know, front and back, your pilot's license, it covers your hours.
Speaker C:We've got a new, like, logbook upload for.
Speaker C:For people using foreflight, or we'll build one for, you know, Garmin pilot and, and log 10 pro and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:If somebody has, like, an example of one, just send it to me and I'll figure it out in a week.
Speaker C:But, but also, more importantly, like, you've got, like, a credentials page.
Speaker C:So if you're a NBAA is the National Business Aviation Association.
Speaker C:If you've gone through their CAM program, you can put a, you know, your credential in there for that.
Speaker C:If you're a master aviator from Flight Safety, you can do that.
Speaker C:If you're part of the wings program, you can do that.
Speaker C:If you've done UPRT training, you can do that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, all those little things that, like, differentiate you as a professional is stuff that we want to capture.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And so a lot of those things, like, I didn't originally have built in, but somebody was just like, hey, can I, like, showcase my cam, you know, certificate?
Speaker C:I'm like, great idea.
Speaker C:Yeah, let's go do that.
Speaker C:And then, you know, we've also got, like, stripe integrated.
Speaker C:And so when pilots sign up, they fill out a structure Stripe Connect account.
Speaker C:So they register as either an independent contractor or as their own business entity.
Speaker C:And so then that means all the payment will, like, flow to the right spot.
Speaker C:But yeah, so, you know, it's essentially free to sign up.
Speaker C:You know, you put in all the, you know, aircraft that you're qualified in, and then, you know, based off of, you know, the aircraft you're qualified in, your current in.
Speaker C:That's what will notify you when a trip is created.
Speaker C:And then, you know, pivoting over to the operator side, you know, operators create, you know, Their fleet.
Speaker C:So like we've got a jetnet integration so they can just type in their tail number.
Speaker C:It pulls in a bunch of information about the plane.
Speaker C:And then when they need a pilot for a trip, they just quick create the itinerary.
Speaker C:You know, it takes like 30 seconds or whatever sends out to all the, all the pilots.
Speaker C:You get an email.
Speaker C:If you're not available, you're not interested, you can just ignore it.
Speaker C:If you are available and you're interested, you can go and provide a quote for your services.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So you can say, this is my day rate, this is my travel day rate, this is how many travel days I need.
Speaker C:This is what I anticipate for, you know, hotels and ground travel, travel and airline tickets and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:And you submit it and then, you know, we provide operators with a dashboard where they can see all the pilots who provided quotes, verify their information against the FAA's database, review their profile, you can chat, you can send messages and documents and stuff like that back and forth.
Speaker C:And then when they've decided on somebody they want to hire, they can click hire, sign a pilot services agreement digitally, which is something that unfortunately often gets skipped and you know, leaves both parties up for issues in the future.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then, yeah, payment processing happens through stripe.
Speaker C:So the pilots kind of get paid, you know, automatically like immediately for, you know, one day of pilot services.
Speaker C:And then after the trip is done, they upload their expenses and get paid out in full.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:In building this and your whole process, you know, you learn different things, but in military, I'm sure you learn things that helped you out to do other things.
Speaker B:But this seemed like a completely new world for you.
Speaker B:Obviously you mentioned when you're younger and in high school you had kind of the magnet school and you had the opportunity to see kind of tech and what it was doing.
Speaker B:But was it.
Speaker B:The question I'm getting at was was it more difficult for you to pivot into aviation in the military or to pivot from aviation?
Speaker B:From flying and managing to an app and being in the tech world.
Speaker C:Yeah, I would say that this is more of a challenge.
Speaker C:I wish that wasn't the case, but.
Speaker C:But, but it is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I mean, I'm a non technical person.
Speaker C:I'm getting smarter every day.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But you know, I'm fortunate to have a really great CTO who is been on this journey with me from, from day one.
Speaker C:And yeah, he can build anything.
Speaker C:I just kind of got to point him in the right direction and.
Speaker C:But yeah, no, I mean, it's It's.
Speaker C:It's tough, but it's.
Speaker C:It's the most, you know, rewarding thing that I've probably done in my professional career, including all the.
Speaker C:All the time I did in the military.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's something cool to.
Speaker B:To build something yourself, right?
Speaker B:To have, like, your own thing.
Speaker B:I've gone through that with.
Speaker B:I mean, with the podcast, obviously, but even the podcast, to me, still feels like more a.
Speaker B:Of.
Speaker B:Like a hobby, right?
Speaker B:Like, it feels more of.
Speaker B:Like, anyone can start a podcast.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:Anyone can start an app, too.
Speaker B:But when I started the magazine, like, for some reason, my brain.
Speaker B:That kicked off, like, all right, this is, like, legit.
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:This is real.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's really cool when you.
Speaker B:When you put a lot of hard work and time and build something that's really cool.
Speaker B:And it's also really scary, right?
Speaker B:Like, I mean, I remember the first time I released there, when I released this on December 15th, I was like, I.
Speaker B:This could go one of two ways.
Speaker B:No one orders, and they laugh at me or people order, and they're just like, holy crap.
Speaker B:This is actually awesome.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:And I see why you made this.
Speaker B:So as a founder, as a creator, you can only hope for.
Speaker B:You know, they say that and they're.
Speaker B:They're impressed and love it and see the usefulness of it, but you really don't know.
Speaker B:You could spend your whole time building something, and people are like, what the heck are you doing?
Speaker B:Why would you do that?
Speaker B:No one wants that.
Speaker C:Dude, I get it, man.
Speaker C:That's what keeps me up every night, frankly.
Speaker C:Because.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, I mean, you know exactly what it's like, right?
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:You're putting yourself out there every single day, right?
Speaker C:And, like, especially, you know, like.
Speaker C:Like, you or I were.
Speaker C:You're kind of like the face of the thing that you're.
Speaker C:That you're building, right?
Speaker C:Like, all that responsibility and all that pressure kind of like, you know, gets put on your shoulders and everything like that, right?
Speaker C:When somebody has a bad experience and there's, like, a little bug which happens, right?
Speaker C:Like, we're.
Speaker C:We're putting out, you know, new code every, you know, couple days, if not every day, like, little things come up and there's a little bug, and I, like, take it personally.
Speaker C:Like, I feel bad, right?
Speaker C:Like when I get an email from somebody and.
Speaker C:And, like, you know, fortunately, everyone has been, like, super nice, and, like, they'll send a very polite email, like, oh, hey, like, this button isn't working.
Speaker C:I'm like, shoot.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So sorry, man.
Speaker C:Appreciate it.
Speaker C:We'll get it fixed, you know.
Speaker C:But yeah, no, there's.
Speaker C:There's a lot of pressure, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker C:I enjoy it.
Speaker C:I think it's important.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:It's also crazy how expensive things are, right?
Speaker B:Like, I mean, with the podcast, I had sponsored.
Speaker B:I had money bring it coming in.
Speaker B:And then when you start doing stuff like this, like, for me, like shipping expenses or just out, unbelievable printing expenses, everything like that.
Speaker B:But just going from like seeing, having, seeing where the money goes and then it's gone.
Speaker B:You're just like, oh, wow, I really need this to do well.
Speaker B:I really need people to like this to make this work.
Speaker B:And then maybe you start getting some money back, then you do it.
Speaker B:Like, in my case, it's quarterly.
Speaker B:So I release magazine.
Speaker B:A lot of expenses.
Speaker B:And then some people buy the magazine, recoup some of those expensive.
Speaker B:Then I have to make another magazine.
Speaker B:Expenses are good.
Speaker B:You know, it's just, it's just like constant cycle and it's just really funny to see kind of the ups and downs of your, how your brain kind of manages that.
Speaker B:And you're like, oh, this is awesome.
Speaker B:You're like, oh, God, my gosh, this is stressful.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh, this is awesome.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, it's the sine wave of the, you know, we're so done.
Speaker C:It's so over.
Speaker C:We're so done.
Speaker C:It's so over.
Speaker C:Just like on a daily basis, essentially.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:If my morning is great, that means my afternoon's going to be terrible.
Speaker C:And if my afternoon's, you know, great, my, then my next morning's going to be terrible.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:With this app, what would make you most, like, excited?
Speaker B:Like in 60, not in 65 years, when you retire, when you step back, when you look back on your legacy, when you look back on what you created, what would give you the most joy?
Speaker B:Would it be making this app and just having someone be like, hey, that, like, really made my life easier.
Speaker B:It really helped me.
Speaker B:Would it be selling it to private equity for millions of dollars?
Speaker B:Like, what would make you the happiest and sleep best at night?
Speaker C:It's a great question.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I mean, I would say that, like, you know, if, if this can play like a small part in increasing, you know, professionalism and safety in business, aviation, community, like, that would be extremely rewarding to me.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because it's, it's, you know, it's unfortunately like a pretty hit and miss, like, industry.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And like, you know, I've, I've talked to a Lot of people about this here, here lately is that, you know, the airlines obviously have like, a phenomenal track record of, of aviation safety.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And, you know, no offense to the airline pilots, right?
Speaker C:It's, it's not that, like, the airline pilots are like the most amazing pilots in the world.
Speaker B:It's that they're easy now.
Speaker C:It's that, like, they, they, they operate within an organization that has standard operating procedures and also adheres to those standard operating procedures.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because if, you know, if you don't, you're going to get a call from the union or the Professional Standards Board or whatever that's just like, hey, man, like, why were you 2,000ft per minute inside five or, or whatever, right?
Speaker C:Yeah, you know, business aviation just doesn't really have that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, there's, you know, NetJets obviously is like, you know, has a larger fleet than American even, I think, these days.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So, like, large organizations like that are able to have like, you know, flight data monitoring programs probably, and all that kind of stuff, and, you know, pretty strict adherence to standard operating procedures.
Speaker C:But again, you know, most flight departments, I think it's like, I don't know, 60 or 70%, like, only have one aircraft.
Speaker C:Like what?
Speaker C:Like, they don't have the resources to be able to, like, actually, you know, you know, implement programs like that.
Speaker C:And so it just unfortunately ends up falling on the individual pilot.
Speaker C:Like, is that pilot, like, acting like a professional pilot or are they just kind of like going out there and like, freewheeling it?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And, you know, we've got a lot of work to do, like, with just within flying company and in the industry in general.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But, you know, NBAA just put the standard operating procedures that they have been developing over many, many years as just a free resource for flight departments to be like, hey, please adopt this, right?
Speaker C:Like, you know, spread it around.
Speaker C:Make sure your pilots are familiar with these.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because this is going to be something that we can kind of like use as an industry to standardize to a certain degree and now, like, flight safety.
Speaker C:And I think CAE are going to be integrating that into do all their like, you know, initials and recurrent trainings here within, like this year.
Speaker C:And that's like a strap, a step in the right direction, you know.
Speaker C:And so, like, we kind of took inspiration from that and now we've got like, a knowledge quiz with Inside Flying Company where pilots can volunteer to like, go out and like, you know, answer this quiz on the NBA standard operating procedures to just show again that, like, hey, I'm a professional.
Speaker C:I take this seriously.
Speaker C:I know the standard operating procedures and, you know, I've, I've, you know, done this, done this quiz and everything like that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So, you know, anything that we can do to kind of like, you know, move the industry into that direction, I think is important.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker B:Well, dude, I appreciate it, man.
Speaker B:I wish you all the best and everything you do, and it's, it's really cool.
Speaker B:I mean, it's one of the reason why I started the podcast, one of the reason I started the magazine.
Speaker B:It's just to share these unique experiences.
Speaker B:I've never talked to anyone that flew special operations in the military.
Speaker B:No one.
Speaker B:Like you said, you didn't even know it was a thing until it showed up on your drop.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's cool to show insight and someone could be listening today.
Speaker B:Be like, wow, wow, I can fly that.
Speaker B:Like, that's kind of cool.
Speaker B:Or they could.
Speaker B:Maybe they.
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:They were at Barry Aviation and they saw the Dornier.
Speaker B:Like, oh, I really wondered what those planes do.
Speaker B:Granted, it's a little different than what you do because it's a contract, but, you know, get an insight of what that could actually, that life could be like.
Speaker B:So I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker B:I appreciate you sharing that information about the flying company, and I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker B:I could.
Speaker B:I. I would imagine it's so much easier for a pilot to use the service, and it's also probably easier for a company.
Speaker B:So if anyone I know that has a plane, I'll be sharing that information.
Speaker B:And if anyone here that's listening to this, like, hey, I want to sign up.
Speaker B:What would they do?
Speaker B:What should they do?
Speaker C:Oh, dude.
Speaker C:Well, man, thank you so much for, for having me.
Speaker C:This has been, you know, a lot of fun.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So flyingcompany.com pretty easy domain or member.
Speaker C:So you can go up there, you know, click register at, sign up as a pilot, fill out your profile again.
Speaker C:It's totally free.
Speaker C:You're also, like, you know, you can find me on, on LinkedIn, Tyler Flag.
Speaker C:You know, Twitter.
Speaker C:I'm just now kind of.
Speaker C:Or X, sorry, just now kind of getting, getting into that Tyler C. Flag there.
Speaker C:You can also send me an email.
Speaker C:Tylerlyingcompany.com Again, I love to hear from people.
Speaker C:Most of the really good ideas have not been my brainchild.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's been people coming to me being like, hey, can you add this?
Speaker C:And I'm just like, yeah, I don't know why I didn't think of that myself.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker B:Idea.
Speaker C:Let me go do that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then I hand it off to my CTO and I'm just like, please build this thing.
Speaker C:Um, but, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker C:Please.
Speaker C:I, I, I love, I love talking to people.
Speaker C:So, you know, by all means, reach out.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Well, Tyler, appreciate your time man.
Speaker B:Thanks for coming on.
Speaker C:Thanks dude.
Speaker C:Appreciate you.
Speaker B:That's a wrap on episode 355.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker B:I really do appreciate it.
Speaker B:Tyler, shout out you man, for, for coming on the podcast, sharing your story.
Speaker B:And I always love when someone's building something.
Speaker B:So if you're building anything in aviation, trying to make aviation better, hit me up.
Speaker B:We'll always do a podcast.
Speaker B:We'll always talk about it.
Speaker B:If you haven't bought the magazine yet by now, we have completed volume two.
Speaker B:By the time this comes out, we are hoping for an end of March release.
Speaker B:So that will hopefully be closer to April Fools.
Speaker B:Which is kind of weird to release something in April Fools, but maybe it'll be our thing, you never know.
Speaker B:So if you see charge come out, I know a lot of people that did buy in the first day.
Speaker B:It's a quarterly recurring so you might get charged on 3:15.
Speaker B:But do know the magazine will not ship until a couple days after that.
Speaker B:I will craft an email and make sure everyone knows that.
Speaker B:But AV Nation, I hope you are having a great day.
Speaker B:I am going to try to go get over this cold.
Speaker B:Got to go fly soon but got to get better.
Speaker B:But appreciate you guys and as always, happy flying.
